RAS 47 Cast Trunnion
I’m just simply amazed by whole “casting vs forged AK trunnions” discussion.
When AR crowd, basically root out and brutally laugh it out any manufacturers who are not following mil spec and not making ARs components stronger, here in AK world, we are trying to justify cutting corners in manufacturing process on part which is the spine of AK…all this is justified by statements like “Science and Manufacturing technology have made a lot of improvements in the last 100 years, or even 50 years and casting is almost as good as forging now – and etc”…
The real question is: why AK users should give up on proven manufacturing process (forging) of critical rifle part, if that part strength was tested for last 5 decades in battles at almost every corner of the world in weather conditions from brutal winters to scorching heat?
Why we should accept what Century, IO and PSA is giving us here now (cast trunnions)?
Why we should settle for less (even if, according to some of you here, it is just “little bit less”)?
Why we should be lab rats for them, so they can get more profits?
Where are their real world tests results to show us that their cast trunnions went through grilling and rigorous tests of at least 50k rds in different weather conditions from -30F winters at Midwest
RAS 47 Cast Trunnion
to scorching heat of Nevada desert? Where i can see that kind of simple test data? Can anyone of you provide me with link to similar tests done by any of those manufacturers?
I’m open minded and i can change my opinion, but please show me real world test data results proving that cast trunnnions perform as well as forged trunnions. But I won’t change my point of view based just on used cars salesmen sales pitch…
At the end of the day, it is you who is going to be behind your rifle when pulling the trigger on it, not me or anyone else. I don’t know about you, but i don’t like taking chances with something what one day may save my life…
People are showing up at our training classes with many “questionable” different AKs. I see them go down usually in 1st day…and this is just a simple training class. Good thing that we have always spare rifles – not for us, but for students…
Yes……
I am constantly hearing/reading that it’s “just an ak”. In other words, quality not necessary. Puke…
It’s apparent that manufacturers above embrace that slogan.
We need to remove this attitude from our speech.
If at every step of manufacture, “just an ak” was embraced , then, what would we have?
Couldn’t agree more!
Hey so i bought a brand new c39v2 and saw your reveiw what should i change on my gun so it wont blow up on me?
How is bolt and locking lugs looking like? Any unusual wear?
Absolutely, its a weapon not a toy and this particular weapon is not made for hunting Animals…they don’t shoot back…you want it to work every time…Period
So how do you tell? Just bought a psa. So it probably is. But id like to know for the future.
Could you possibly provide a list of AKs with forged trunnions? Thanks.
Arsenal 107s, 104s and older SGL31s and 21s, all Saigas, all Veprs, WASr10s, Yugo rifles, anything made on parts kits, like DAKM 4150Ns and so on. Well, i guess it is easier to list cast one: RAS47, PSA and IOs.
And Kalashnikov USA rifles
Do the c39v2’s have cast trunnions? Also, whats the best Value on a quality AK today. Thanks Rob Ski
No, they are milled receiver.
So I’m debating between WASR, NPAP/OPAP, or the C39/C39v2
WASR for the win!
Actually they ARE cast, then milled to spec just so they can say it’s “milled”
so psa ak’s use casted trunnions?
Yes.
I bought a “U.S. Draco” without knowing it was actually a RAS47 in disguise.
Century had not answered my emails so it looks like I’m stuck with it.
My question is can I purchase a forged trunnion for it(along with bolt and carrier) and who would be able to install it for me?
I’m not sure what they did on those – I don’t know who they used to copy parts from…if they designed their own trunnion, then who knows man. But since you have it already, just keep using it and keep monitoring it…look at any unusual deformation of bolt locking lugs.
No more in the GF3 series. These have forged trunions and bolt carriers.
Correct. Things changed in recent years.
LOOOOVE my sgl21-61!
Also stamped Valmet M76 and M78 (other valmets are milled) have forged trunnions.
DDI as well uses a forged Trunnion.
Dzień dobry Ski: Seems the C39V2 is milled (receiver) and forged (trunnion); would you please verify with the one you have?
Dziekuje bardzo–!
C39V2 is milled receiver – trunnion is part of the receiver.
Did you have the same problem with the C39 Centurion Sporter, you had with the C39V2. The only videos I seen on C39 Centurion Sporter, was the one about the sight falling off, and bolt carrier group hanging half way, and the one when you were dragging around the gun. Do you think the crappy chothes hanger type recoil spring on this gun might be why you were getting unusual wear on bolt and carrier, since it puts upwards, downwards, sideways pressure on bolt carrier, because it moves around so much. As soon as I seen that crappy recoil spring, I threw it in the trash, and replaced with a milled telescoping recoil spring. I did replace the bolt carrier but still using the factory bolt. Not seeing any unusual wear yet, no mushrooming, just 500 rds so far. I always check the head space before I shoot this gun. I don’t like being the test dummy for Century Arms, maybe they should put me on their payroll. I bought this gun from a individual, he never fired gun, but had in his safe for two years, so I have no warranty on this gun. Only seen about problems on this guns after I bought the gun. I seen a lot of reviews before I bought, but they were saying how good these guns were. I have owned many AK’s in the past, but never bought a Century Gun before now.
I don’t own C39 sporter anymore, but watch Mel64d on that early model, they were even worse than c39v2
I orderd a PSAK barreled receiver last week thinking its was a great deal. On Monday I get an email saying that they cancelled my order do to company policy (not shipping AK receivers to California). At the moment I was pissed off but after reading this, it it was a blessing in disguise. On Monday I ordered a nodak receiver and plan on building it with quality parts. I don’t want no shitty trunnions on my AK.
Thanks for the info Rob!
Lol, i guess you have lucky karma!
Hi Rob,
Isn’t PSA GB2 line billet stamp?
-Cheers
They have different options from my understanding…
My clunker of an AK (WASR) keeps getting better all the time!
No kidding!
Based upon user reviews I bought RAS47. First I hear about the bolt yesterday and now I see the hollowed out cast trunnions. I wonder what is next. I have not shot mine as of yet. Going to save up for and Arsenal.
I purchased my first AK after checking customer feedback and video’s. I read some and then purchased an I.O.. from Atlantic Firearms. Both Atlantic Firearms and Classic Fire Arms were singing put out video’s saying these were the greatest thing going. Now after I buy mine, I start seeing that bolts are breaking, trunnions are bad and extractors are having problems. I have had mine out and shot it several times and after I got rid of the plastic mags, it has run great. The problem is I am not sure that if I had too…. could I bet my life on it. It would have been much simpler if I could have found at the time of purchase a listing or a video that says if you have a budget between say $2000-$1500 buy this one, between $1500-$1000 buy this one and between $1000 and $600 buy this one and below that save your money. I sure would like to see that. I have seen this done with video’s and listings for AR’s
The WASR wins again! Seriously, this re-affirms my commitment to sticking with the old Warsaw Pact/Soviet licensed factories for my Kalashnikov weapons…
Well, just traded in a couple old guns for a RAS 47 not knowing any better, now trying to figure out how to get rid of it and get a different ak.
It is a ordeal to switch out a cast trunnion for a forged? Are there quality forged trunnions (sold alone)?
You can get forged trunnions from parts kits. Yes, gunsmith could switch it for you if standard receiver was used.
Very informative stuff, Rob, especially for us “new to the AK” guys. Thanks for providing all this.
So does that mean the non standard 1.6mm thicker RAS47 reciever WILL NOT work with a replaced forged trunion??
Not without mods.
Are there any manufacturers that make forged trunnions for Ras 47s?
I don’t know any…you would have to probably modify them.
Are there any other builders to watch out for? I’ve got a WASR already, and the DDI guns look like a great value.
Here is the list: http://www.akoperatorsunionlocal4774.com/2015/10/open-letter-to-century-arms-kalashnikov-usa-palmetto-state-armory-and-io/
Hello Rob,
I have a iz132 from Kalashnikov variant dressed up by RWC based on the saiga rifle. It listed the trunnion as a foreign part. Can I hope this is a forged trunnions?
Thanks, justin
Just remove handguard, look into the receiver openning and see if you can see casting marks
Do Npap’s have cast or forged trunnions?
They should have forged unless Serbians changed process…
I would trust ANYTHING investment cast by Ruger.
Infact, I think Ruger is the one of a few Large American companies that has the Ability to mass produce an high quality, ALL US made, 100% IN HOUSE manufactured Akm/ak47 style rifle.
Think about a Ruger ak variant rifle with:
Ivestment cast “milled style” reciever
Chf 4150n chrome barrel
Designed to accept all standard stamped furniture
AK100 style, gas system and barrel profile to save a lil weight to help with the heft of the reciever.
If they could get the price point to $1099-1199, street, I bet they would sale a F*ck ton of them.
Mighty big dreams there, Mcbeth. If they were not backing their Mini-30 rifle already I would say it is an even bet. I don’t see them giving up on the Mini though.
Thankfully DDI stepped into the void…
Last year I scored the original baby glock that had been purchased, stored in a hallway closet, gathered dust for years and an old man traded a wore out Taurus 45 I had for it. I find out what I got and tell a buddy he instantly starts offering me money for it. Eventually he got up to 550 dollars and I said hell yea. Same day drove about an hour to the areas best gun dealer and buy my very first Ak. I was so proud of that gun. Walking around bragging about how kick ass it is. Well I bought an I.O. not knowing any better. It ran like a workhorse the whole time I had it. only issues were all magazine related. But a couple weeks ago I read about this whole cast/forged trunnion ordeal and Without a second thought put it up for sale. I was in love with this rifle yall. Then reading through these comments I saw Rob Ski say that the cast can be switched with forged. Well that’s awesome but my question concerning that is this. Would that procedure cost more than the original price paid for my cheap ass Ak? Thanks yall.
Trunnion cost is $30, but labor for it would be around $150…so, for now, just leave it and use it as it is…
Rob Ski responded to me. that’s fuckin legit. thank you sir.
would you believe a cleaning rod saved me !!!! I narrowed my choice down to the RAS and the DDI . I chose the DDI because it had a cleaning rod. how lucky was that? wow!!
Isn’t the C39v2 made out of cast? I would get one but if the bcg is made out of cast forget it. I might as well get an sks.
C39V2 has milled receiver. I have no idea how the original block of metal is formed, but on milled receiver, you have much more “meat”, so significance of this could be little or none.
First off I own a RAS 47 and I think it is awesome. I did not know about the cast trunnions. Honestly I didn’t even know what a trunnion was. My gun has not malfunctioned once. I have dropped it on concrete three times like in the video and I did not have any failures. This is the most accurate AKM I have ever shot and I would like to just fix the problem trunnion. Is that possible?
At this point let’s wait and see what is going to happen for the long run…changing trunnion would be counter productive now…
Rob Ski, what about changing the trunnion now would be counter productive?
Yes. I would run it and hope for the best. To change trunnion now, you would have to re do rivets and etc…too much cost.
So…, do you have a cracked trunion on your rifle to actually fix?
This website rocks! First ak was a wasr now I get another. Two aks for the price of an ar. Ring a ding ding.
I too recently bought an RAS47($600). So far I have had zero failures (only about 400 rounds) and have enjoyed the rifle immensely. Recently I found the threads concerning cast trunnions and began to fret; only time will tell. I am grateful to Rob Ski and the AK Operators Union for all the great information they provide.
I have an I.O. Inc. AK, and I know it has a cast trunion. The cool thing is this – I have never had a single problem with this rifle! It shoots well, it’s accurate, and it has never suffered a failure of any kind. Now that I know that forged trunions are superior, it’s something I would look for it a new AK, but I have no regrets. I would gladly purchase this rifle all over again.
Hearing this sickens me, how can they take something that has been proven to work Mil-spec for decades the forged trunions by cutting them now down to cast trunions, why to just save a buck but still charge us buyers the same price as the forged AKM rifles. I guess made in America now means “to cut corners”! Guess this proves that we cannot make a total American made AK 47/ 74 that will ever beat the big “K” or other well made over seas AK platform rifles.
What about the DDI line of rifles? Im looking to by one very soon
They are trying hard. They have their own issues, but working them out and moving FWD.
What are your opinions on the Petronov build AKs?
I have never had one in my hands…so i have no feedback man.
I just spoke to Mr. Anthony Petrone after further research and speaking with him directly the petronov build seems like a great investment there is a video done by MAC on the petronov it has outstanding reviews and no known issues I’m getting rid of my c39v2 for that particular rifle Russian red it’s beautiful price about $899 he can’t make them with a milled receiver at this point in his career but Atlantic firearms are selling these like hot cakes if that tells you anything good luck let me how it holds can’t wait.
I just want to know how you get this ghost image on this thread! 😎
It is word press software for web.
I just got rid of my i.o. inc after reading about the issues and seeing videos of failures.
In the year I owned it I never had any issues, but I wasn’t ready to have one either.
Per your tests and recommendations I plan to order a QC Wasr 10 from Atlantic tomorrow. These are guaranteed to be all forged and no cast parts where you wouldn’t want them correct?
I won’t buy or recommend an AK without your stamp of approval first. I was looking at the ras47 and after watching your tests and reviews I stopped looking. I have decided to go with the rh10. I have a wasr 10/63 that I love. Never had any issues with it. The only thing with it is 2 of the rifling about a mm from the crown are bad. Do you recommend replacing or recrowning the barrel?
Is it affecting your accuracy? If not, i wouldn’t worry about it.
Hey Rob, thanks for the awesome videos. I like that you test the rifles beyond what “normal” circumstances might be. Especially appreciate that when you see a problem with a rifle you call it out and don’t try to sugar coat it. Have been watching the ras torture test, and it has been eye opening. It definitely shines a spotlight on the difference between cast vs forged, and manufacturers heat treatment processes. From this test alone, and from the wear and tear on the critical parts of the ras is enough to keep me away from that rifle, probably for good. Wasr ftw
I was thinking of picking up that ati milled m70 underfolder. If its milled does it mean the trunnion is cast? They use a m70 parts kit just dont know what parts are authentic. Have you ever test an underfolder? Even the ATI one?
It should be forged. They should be using good, old surplus trunnion.
Sounds like somebody with a line of drop-in replacement trunnions for these rifles will have a decent market. I haven’t even fired mine, and won’t until I really see a respectable answer for this.
“Drop in trunnion” ? Ummm….how would that work. You would still have to press barrel in and out and all the rivet work. The cost of a forged trunnion is negligible….
robski is the ak63d a good buy?
It is OK, but get Wasr10 if you can.
I really want a RH10.
When will psa offer their billet/forged ak’s?
Yes. I have no timeline but yes.
I should be receiving my psak-47 gb2 soon. Only the polymer furniture kit was made available as the first run. The red and blond wood looks very nice too.
Hey Rob, would you rather get a C39v2 or a RH10?
RH10.
Badass! Big fan of your videos. I watched both videos on the c39v2 and RH10 and was leaning more towards the RH10.
What about a DDI or RH10?
Hey Rob, The RH10 has a forge Trunnion right?
All we know at this point that it has Romanian military spec trunnion. Assumption is, that those are forged.
I love my rh-10 with magpul furniture! 7,000 rounds through her since I bought it last year and not a single malfunction
Solve your problem,,,sks tapco stock, ,20 rnd mags or 75 rnd drum,,comes with hammer forged barrel, ,crome lined bore,,,milled reciever,,battle proven, ,for the last 60 yrs, ,no bolt problem ,,no cheap barrels ,,no worrisome thought in the back of your mind about if it will work or if it will last,,and get one before November
You are talking about??? The RH10?
No my friend, ,,SkS ,,the ugly older sister of the ak47
Hey rob,,have you ever considered reviewing the sks rifles ,,,like chinese compared to yugo ?
Btw thanks for your time and patience, ,john
revenge of the wasr10,my next ak thanks for info
Rob,
What about this one?
LEE ARMORY POLISH PREMIUM W/ FB RADOM POLISH COLD HAMMER FORGED CHROME LINED BARREL
Never tested one…sorry
Thank you for all of your educational input and fun videos based on the ak 47 platform. My first ak 47 purchase, not knowing any better about trunions was an io sporter ak 47 built 2013 palm bay Fla. Over a time period of 2 and a half years of owning this rifle I have put about 2k rounds thru it without one failure, since I have also managed to stock pile about 10k rounds of tula 7.62×39. After reading and watcthing many off your videos I went and purchased a wasr10 ak on Monday nov, 7th day before election day thinking “crooked Hillary” was going to be our next president. Went out and shot the piss out of this wasr10 (roughly 1200 rds ) no failures either. I am sleeping better tonite knowing I have forged trunions on my 2016 built wasr10 and, and not have to put my life in the hands of an experimental unproven cast trunion rifle!!! wtf do you do with thousands of rounds if your fucking rifle breaks when shtf!! I’m aso thinking of trading one of my at 15 for a mak 10!!
thank you Mr. Rob Ski !!
Thanks for being with us!
I just trade for a ras47, not knowing about the issues. I love every respect of the rifle. I have read lots of reviews. I am into the ras47 deep so it’s either dump it for a loss or hope I can have it repaired if I ever need to. I was hoping the inferior parts could be changed out but that’s not looking to good either . If the ras47 Isnt as bad as claimed. I wish they would prove it by doing a 10,000/15,000
rd test!!!
Rob Ski you are The Man. With so many different makes and models and parts kit build companies its hard to know which is worth getting, i remember when I.O was one of the only choices in most gun stores and how the barrels were curved and sights canted on a lot of them i seen at the gun store for cuerrent wasr proce range. I also have personally had the unfortunate encounter with century arms, i bought some vz 2008 sporters because they are an awesome platform and when psa dumped them i bought a a bunch and figured they be a good investment, started selling some off and got horrible feed back, one guy kept breaking the firing pin and was peirceing primers, another had stuck casing in the barrel, so i took a loss and dumped them on the low i did have one with a few hundred rounds no issues, also took a chance on the waffen werks bulgarian ak74, ran a whole mag and got a failure to eject and had to beat the casing out, polished the chamber and ran another mag same thing, fit and finish was nice but again another issue from another manufactuer. I again have had the itch for a ak with gasblock sight i like the galil but not the price for 7.62×39 a few hundred less and it be worth it. I liked the ddi build until your review saved me some headache Nd money although i agree with you that they are doing some good things i like the barrels they use and recievers i do have hope for them. But ultimately i feel the rh10 is a go for me, some complain for the cleaning rod and short sight radius but dont pay attention to what jim fuller said with the better balance and less weight is a plus to tote around because these rpk reviever build aks are a bit to shoulder. Thanks for your honest unbiased opinions Rob Ski. My fellow enthusiast and i keep up with your channel and discuss future platforms based on your feedback on them.
Got an RAS 47 with less than 400 rounds through it. Right trunnion is gouging out pieces of the locking lug. Left locking lug isn’t looking good either. My first AK and have never seen this type of wear on any weapon before. Waiting on Century to tell me something. Don’t know if I should shoot rifle any more. Always checked after every 50 rounds and always lubricate.
Could you please email me pics? ak74ski@comcast.net
Hello Mr. Rob Ski, every time I watch another video on io inc ak 47 failing, the more I feel like I need to get rid of this rifle. I am not in the business of fucking people over or ripping people off, I believe in karma, but how the fuck should I dump this rifle or should I just worry about the safety of others and hang on to it. as I mentioned before I have about 2k rounds thru it with no malfunctions, granted I don’t shoot it as hard as I should to put it thru its paces. learning from your pictures and videos I have started to notice some wear on the carrier(cast) and the bolt. I will post some pics as soon as I get a chance. wtf do you do with broken rifle?
Chris ,,you should go buy sks paratrooper,keep io ak for emergancy only,,or saw it into pieces,,good luck
Did not realize the extent of the problems on the RAS47 , until I saw these testimonies ….
I guess I should be fortunate that I purchased the C39V2 and not the RAS47 .
What really burns me , is that I paid a total of $830 for a rifle that I probably will never
be able to re-sell , except at a huge loss …. Century and IO are certainly ” the scourge
of the AK world !
To add insult to injury , the gunsmith stated : What are you complaining about ? – I see
a very nice Milled Receiver and a really swell Green Mountain Barrel !
Hello Mr.Rob Ski and everyone else here!
Not long ago I bought a I.O.Inc A.K.M.
It jammed and then it ( the bolt carrier ) got stuck forward.
I’m thinking of using surplus Hungarian parts ( bolt/ bolt carrier/ recoil spring assembly ) in the I.O. A.K.M.
I seen a few people use Bulgarian parts so my question is will Hungarian parts work just as well as the Bulgarian parts to fix the issues of the I.O. Inc A.K.M. .???
I have no idea man. Also, when swapping bolts and carriers, you should check if your head spacing is still good for safety…
hey rob have you seen the Riley Defense AKs on atlanticfirearmsfor $499?! cant belive its that cheap do you have any info of these rifles ?
I have no info on this rifle…
MAK 90 FTW. Heavy but accurate and made out of adamantium. Should never have sold mine. Had a 2014 WASR 10 too for a bit, which was cheap feeling and ugly but pretty good to go mechanically. Now I have a DDI made off a Hungarian parts kit, which is pretty, but unproven. All forged AKs at least.
I had a gunstore employee laugh when I told him about AKOU testing of cast trunnion rifles. I suppose not surprising since he was trying to talk me into a RAS47 or C39V2. “I have one, it’s awesome.”
Cool story, me.
“Dont matter no ways, I mean it’s a shame that people are ripping off people w junk parts, Like look at all the fake and clone Harley parts which look good and are cheap until =they fail- in a road race or a competition sic!.
Is any body really surprised the ‘fast buck’ boys had moved into guns as theres lots of money there or if you will your money etc!.
“Kinda pitiful in hard times and bad times people selling you junk parts for an emergency gun but some are like that now the solution is if you are a builder just buy one part at a time but proven parts OK.
Still if you were unlucky enough to just buy one at a gun shop dont worry about it, As the Feds will soon be coming around to take them back from you anyway so dont worry tho those who got junk rifles might be able to sell them at mark down price at one of the auction sites etc!.
Yes A Bum Deal to be sure!…..
You Snooze You Loose!.
I have a century Draco is it just as good as a wasr10
Wow. Buncha worry warts carrying ak47s. I have an npap, which i love. Had good reviews before i bought it, but i guess its the worse ak out there now. Its quality made, everything is straight, perfect rivet job, never had any issues with it. Period. Everything is tight. Great ak in my opinion.
do century arms ras47 draco have cast or forged trunion
hey rob do century arms ras47 draco have a cast or forged grunion i have one on layaway and wondering if i should get cash back
It’s sad that once america sold and made great products. We had schools that you can actually learn something besides learning to be a liberal lefty retard. The old standard is now the new high performance standard like rocket technology we have the russian making our rocket parts for NASA because it wolud be to costly for over paid Americans to do it the right way….Now we have plastic dog shit stuff and match stick men laughing all the way home with there forged toys….. As consumer’s we have lost are way and are getting dumber by the second so stop buying dog shit bull shit products and take back what was lost history of making forged in fire american top of the line goods.
I’ve got a Arsenal 107 to replace the PSA Gen 2 that I had. After getting it, I was a little bummed about the general fit and finish of this 800.00+ AK and preceded to replace all of the furniture and refinish the metal with appliance epoxy paint. Recently, after reading about all the hate on PSAs, mostly because of they’re cast trunnions which are really billet, I decided to drop 499.00 and buy another one. It’s a nice AK!, as nice as the MAK 90 I once owned. Why does this site give it a bad wrap after it did so well in the 5000 round test?
My c39v2 looks like it is getting a small amount of cracking on the right side of receiver close to the barrel. Not sure exactly what it is called. Will a replacement polish bolt you had a video on stop this wear? Should I contact Century? Marcus
Yes, i would go through the motions and at least have someone check it out. This is called right locking shoulder.
I’m poor and it looks like that will have to be my option too.Retrofit.
Good luck Jon. I have a I/O rifle -it was all I could find at a reasonable price..So far I have 1253 rounds through it. Mostly handloads.. I used to own a Maadi bought in the 1980s but had to sell it to pay medical bills back them. Ah the days of quality aks that not merely rich people could afford. Even at $400+ to retrofit my I/O it beats paying $1500 for a new akm. Just like cars some of us appreciate Lamborghinis but will never own one–or its ak equal. Its nor a matter of how serious you are..Money is sparse 4 retired truck drivers on disability like me. If you find a gunsmith who’ll do the job without ripping you off let me know. I’ll send him my business. I’m hoping to be
getting a $449 reimbursement from the DAs office here from a man who robbed me of a smartphone and glucose meter. I hope that’ll cover the fix.
Thanks Rob S for letting me know my rife is dangerous.