I have seen of this sort of stress failure occurring in some of the Serbian N-PAPs. The problem was traced to a single production run of trunnions, bolts, and rivets incorrectly tempered. However, those failed after hundreds of rounds down the pipe. If this rifle failed after only 25, they have a serious Quality Control issue in their manufacture.
Hopefully, this is a case similar to the N-PAPs and the problem has been corrected.
So I emailed Century, here is the conversation.
Heidi Bellizzi (Century Arms)
Oct 26, 13:00
At this time we have no comment on what people are posting on the forums.
Oct 25, 11:52
Name: Steven stout
Comment: So can some tell me why people are having problems with cast trunnions and bolt failure in your RAS47? I just bought one and have not shot it yet. Frankly I am afraid to shot it, I don’t want it blowing up in my face.
that no-comment reply from the company about the defect????….typical reply from a stupid idiot manager…..buy american????, hell no!!!!!!….they are going to get somebody killed…as long as the quality is remaining poor so the management can get their quarterly bonus????, fuck ’em…….buy romanian……..another example, look at the fucked up guns they made at kalashnikov usa in pennsylvania, an insult to russia!
Rob, I cannot understand why any manufacturer would try to save a few pennies or dollars by putting lesser quality parts and hoping no one will notice. They must think we are stupid. They are wrong. I ALWAYS gladly pay more $ for cold hammer forged and chrome lined barrels. All of my ARs are built with Mil Spec or better parts. My AKs are Russian or Chinese. If the Russian military rifles have forged trunnions, there must be a reason. The lesson here is: If it works, don’t fuck with it, unless you can improve it! All we can do is educate people and vote with our wallets!
We currently have two RAS 47’s as range guns. Each failed at about 3200 rounds. Guns were shot weekly and cleaned throughly and propery lubricated after each range session. I will be checking with the distributor and century about replacement. None of the weapons were ever dropped and or abused in any way.
Currently we have 14 long guns and 22 pistols for rent. Weapons are used mostly by soldiers for recreational shooting, and personal training. We only use factory ammunition, brown bear and silver bear for the AK’s and SKS’s and factory brass cased for the other weapons. At this point I would not recommend the RAS for any usage as the trunion failure can lead to firing out of battery and separation of the case and or possibly injuring the shooter.
Although this is interesting, how many others have had their trunions crack and after how many rounds?
That is what I want to know. I have a brand new AR and it’s fit an finish pale in comparison to my RAS47
I just refuse to follow the ” don’t confuse me with the facts, I,ve made up my mind”
Once again, aside from this picture and report , how many cases have there been of cracked trunions?
Mine just broke yesterday on my birthday … wish I would of seen this before I bought it a few years back. Haven’t even put that many rounds in it & the SAME EXACT thing happen. I wish I could send u a picture it looks exactly like your … what a horrible day. Now I’m gunna have to sell it I’m not even gunna worry about this piece of shit. I’m gunna get me a real Russian one 💯
I am a mechanical engineer/material scientist (and AK owner). I don’t work in the gun industry, and could give two shits about brand x vs brand z. From a technology and product development perspective, we live in a remarkable new world – every problem now has multiple great solutions, and the one you pick is more about you than the problem.
1) The photos show a part that has failed due to plastic deformation and ductile tearing. Its obviously not due to design. The AK trunnion design is as proven as any mechanical part designed in the history of mankind. There are many metallurgical reasons why this could have happened, but the most likely reasons are:
a) Lack of Heat Treatment or Poor Quality Control of the Heat Treatment process. Chro-moly steels, and most steels, can have their mechanical properties altered by heat treatment- from tough (and ductile) to strong (and brittle), simply by applying different heat treatment protocols. Parts are typically cast, machined, then heat treated (to save on tooling wear). This part might have been inadvertently left out of heat treat batch and reintroduced later, cooled improperly (too slowly), or any myriad of other possibilities. The solution to this kind of problem is largely administrative, and calls for some six sigma training and implementation.
b) Casting inclusions or voids. When casting, you can have voids and inclusions that weaken the mechanical properties of the parts. This can also happen with forgings (remember, all forgings were castings at one time). This is really doubtful, in my mind. Modern casting techniques are so refined, that significant voids and inclusions are rare.
c) The steel alloy metallurgy could have been defective. Alloys are mixtures of different elements, with different amounts of iron, carbon, chromium, molybdenum, vanadium, etc.. The base metal mixtures supplied to the manufacturer could have been off, which will affect the mechanical properties. This also seems very doubtful. Most steel mills have impeccable QC on their output, but whenever people are involved, mistakes can be made.
2) There is no way any company could have this be a standard outcome of their manufacturing procedure and expect to survive. They would go bankrupt. This has to be an anomaly and/or a defect that rose out of a new manufacturing process, which is very common. I have been a part of many new product manufacturing operations, and the first ones off the line are always crap. Problems come up, you solve them. Hopefully you catch all the mistakes and fix them, but invariably shit happens and some leak thru. Problems get reported. Problems get fixed. I APPLAUD Century for having the guts to go down the path of developing a new mfg. line, producing a value oriented product, and keeping jobs in America.
Forgings vs. Castings.
Yes, if you asked me, would you like part x forged or cast (and it cost me the same) I would say FORGED. But, like all things in life, its not as simple as that. Yes, forgings are almost always “stronger” than castings (given equivalent starting metallurgy) but they are more expensive, and the degree to which they’re “stronger” is dependent on a variety of factors, which doesn’t even touch the question of how strong a part do you need?
a) Forgings, by definition, are castings that have been “hot worked” (in this application) with the objective to produce an even sized and aligned grain structure, remove casting imperfections and increase strength.
b) A forging is a forging is a forging. No. There is a wide range of how much forging a forged part actually receives. A part can be lightly forged, or heavily forged. If a forged part was $100 more and only 2% “stronger” is it worth it? $1000 more and 10 times stronger, is it worth it? Again, its a personal decision, is it worth it to you? But we need to ask the real question – how strong does a part need to be? What is the resulting strength to weight ratio required? Those are the real questions engineers deal with every day. Holding a bolt closed during a round firing. check. push ups by Rob Ski and his pals, check. Run over by a pick-up. check. You can record the actual stresses in psi that a part is subjected to in worst case scenarios (hot load, hanging from a tree, whatever) and say, “this part needs to have repetitive stresses no greater than X psi, no incident stress greater than Y psi, and a cycle life of Z”. Add safety factor, then you have a number to design to. ANYTHING MORE IS A WASTE OF MONEY, TIME and RESOURCES. No one talks numbers, but you can be assured that’s what Mikhail and his team did. They ran numbers. They chose forgings because that was the only way to make reliable, strong metal parts that met their design criteria in the 1940’s. It goes without saying that casting technology has come a long way in the last 70 years, so don’t throw the casting baby out with the bath water. I was recently at a car part mfg. in Stuttgart and they are doing amazing things with castings and hot isostatic presses (powder metallurgy). They are supplying Mercedes and Porsche with these parts. MANY parts that required forging and machining in the 40’s (or 80’s) are cast today. And a properly cast trunnion nowadays probably meets the design criteria just fine.
What I dont know, and what I think would be cool, is for the Century engineers to engage their customers better and talk about these problems. I’m sure their lawyers would go nuts- but I bet there are engineers at Century who are chomping at the bit to talk about how they implemented new heat treatment processes, or how they had a problem with a subcontractor… but that’s probably not going to happen.
@ Forging vs Cast price of that specific part – price difference is…wait for it…less than $10, that’s from one source and other source told me that based on quantity they can drop it to as low as $2 in price difference…END OF DISCUSSION.
I’m just back from Shot Show. All major players going back to forging with exception of IO…
I really think you hit the nail on the head here! I have worked with many QC people in the defense and aerospace industry (I was logistics/ supply chain security, then moved into social engineering cuz I’m a dick). They all point to problems like this with the engineers who do not have established criteria for performance, and also cutting corners for a few cents when they lose more money long term in reputation. Rep = Money! I have been looking for an AK that meets my performance requirements and stumbled upon AKOUL, which meets my expectations for what I want my weapon to perform as.
If Century lets its engineers interact with the end user, they will create a better product, and I think that your recommendation of a Six Sigma training and implementation is a great place to start. And….I see some money to be made for an industry specific SS Black Belt consulting group. LOL
But I’m going with DAKM 4150N or that DDI that Rob and Co. beat on. 🙂
Excellent analysis. It is probably a stretch that Century has a significant engineering staff, since the design comes from a time honored bureau with millions of fielded examples to draw statistical data from. Machine parts drawings often get separated from special process documentation, and a special heat treating process may get truncated to say HT to Rockwell surface hardness XX but that does not speak to the effectivity of the depth of the heat treating or other critical design properties that don’t make it to the manufacturing drawings that third party manufacturers work with.
New tooling can be problematic even if historic process is followed. Such problems more often than not are related to a lack of systems engineering considerations regarding interaction of parts. The industry seems very competitive and these pressures drive cost decisions made by people who don’t understand the engineering consequences of short cuts. The industry needs to spend more engineering and design analysis dollars up front. It may save the need to spend legal dollars on the back end.
Very interesting stuff guys-thanks for the feedback.Im relatively new to AK and fascinated by them.Rob,you and the team are awesome keep up your great work.AK I have is IO AKM247.Quality seems very good -rivets straight,sights too. Fired two days ago thirty rounds.Weather-30 degrees,wind 20-30 and gusting 40 so was hard to really try a good zero process,I have put on the Meprolight night sight set and will provide feedback soon.Thanks guys.
I have a RAS47 That I’ve put about 500 rounds through I’d post some pics. This being my first ak, Im not sure that this wear is normal, or not, but I do love the nitride finish on the gun. Tell me what you think. So far, I’ve seen 3 defects, some more nitpicks than others. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B2Zzk1FhrHZrODhGQWhLM1JDNUE&usp=sharing
1. The safety lever goes down a bit to far. (picking)
2. The lower hand-guard retainer is lose, but the hand-guard is still tight.
3. The rear sight slider cracked at some point, not on the range, and is slightly canted.
On issue 3 I contacted century arms, they said they would sent me a new one if I filled out a form of liability and and drivers license copy. Haven’t done it yet, as I don’t know how long they will retain my info for a fucking $3 part.
Love a response.
Rob- Did your 5k round test use a rifle with newer heat treated parts (“X”) or old? Best,
It is X marked bolt carrier. You can see it on pics.
I’m looking at all the options for an entry level AK and it seems when I find one ( RAS-47, NPAP, WASR, exsetra…) there’s a story of how it blew up, bent it’s patrs, spontaneously combusted, or just flat out didn’t work.
Being on a budget I need a rifle that works, not a box of parcerized trot line ancor’s.
( plus, it would be nice to find something that takes cheaper mags than my Century VZ-58)
WASR rifles are great, but I think the cat is out of the bag on there reliability and I can’t find one in my area for under $750 out the door.
Any other budget AK rifles on the market that wont have any crazy issues and leave SOL.
OR…. has Century Arms quietly mended the tempering / casting issues and all is well and green lights on the RAS-47? if so, what Cerial number range should I look at?
Thank you for the information, I’ll save a few more dollars and put it on a WASR.
If it all works out to get the rifle, I’m definitely going to take a Wild Hog with it.
just for kicks I might use the VZ-58 this year inside 100 yards.
If I get a hog, I’ll post some pics.
From what I’m seeing, 7.62×39 is rapidly becoming the new standard for (economical ) hog hunting in Texas.
The AK 47 seems to be a good fit for an all around rifle.
– Simaler to a 30-30 in nockdown but balistacly better.
– Well suited for shots on mediam sized wild game under 150 yards as seen in South Texas Mesquite / Central Texas Cedar Brush.
( Provided a side rail mount and a good scope.)
– Will do very well to defend the family if more than the old home defence 12g. pump is needed.
With AK quality and bullet technology geting better across the board, the AK platform seems to be takeing the role of not just a tactical weapon, but also as a rifle you can put meat on the table with and pass down to your kids when you get older.
And if the world goes crazy, its better suited to defend the homestead than a remington 700.
It just gets a little frustrating when guys can only aford to invest in one or two firearms and need there limited arsenale to be as “Swiss army knife” as posible to compinsate for limited funds to obtain purpose spisific tools.
So When the RAS-47 took a hit on the quality control and went questionable on service life, it was a sad day. I can take care of my tools and make them last a very long time, I just need them to not let me down.
I hope century arms can fix the problem and if posible “re-call” the bad run of rifles.
If I cant find a WASR or even more rare an OPAP, I will look for a RAS 47 rifle, carrier / trunion marked ‘X’ and just pray I got a good one. Onother avalibility problem is that there are a lot of RAS 47 rifles out there, even the BIG BOX chain stores are selling them now. People are holding on to there faithfule AK’s ( WASR, OPAP, ARSENAL, exsetra….) in this politicaly charged climate. (Given the outcome of this years elections.)
Maybe if we get lucky another former COM-BLOCK country will go the way of the CHECK’s and start running with a new modern rifle and start exporting there old AK parts kits by the boat load. ( Kind of saw a similar situation with the Iraqui contract Romanian built rifles.)
If anyone finds any evidence that the RAS-47 has been improved, PLEASE, post photos of stamping or engraving markings or a cirial number range to help everyone spot a good rifle and avouid a dud.
Thank you ‘Kurt W’ for your info input on the carrier markings and thank you Rob for your hard work in making the AK-4774 program posible.
To everyone reading, Thank you, watch your 6, and God bless.
*Update* I took the RAS-47 That I took pictures of out to the range again today, another 200 rounds. Had some issues with feeding, seemed like the bolt was short stroking a bit, not hitting the round with enough force to get in into the chamber; first time I had this problem. Later in the session, I had a issue where every couple rounds the trigger failed to reset at random. Figured out the problem when I got home and heard it rattling while I cleaned it. The screw that goes through my stock in to the back of the receiver had come loose, the nut on the other side of this screw was loose under the hammer, and caused the issues. It was a bitch to get it reseated, but with that done I lock-tighted it right. Seems like something century should watch out for, I had to take off the top cover at the range and fuck with the hammer to get it to reset, that could get your ass killed.
I have a IO Inc. AKM247T that I got this past Christmas. Never heard of them and began doing research to find that no one seems to like them. Was worried about owning this rifle after all the negative things I had seen and read. Since I’ve had the rifle, I have put 390 rounds through it and have not had a single issue. Works every time I pull the trigger with slow deliberate target practice shots or random 30 round mag dumps. Only gripe I initially had was a canted FS/GB which I straightened myself and the bolt carrier jumping the rail and jamming when the recoil buffer was removed. Not too concerned with that right now since I don’t plan on removing the buffer permanently, but learned I could fix the issue with a surplus Bulgarian bolt carrier and recoil system if I choose to do so later. May do that eventually. I use Tapco Intrafuse 30 rd mags along with Fiocchi brass ammo, Wolf, Tul Ammo and Golden Tiger. Works great and have added a Magpul AK stock and pistol grip. Plan on painting it matte black with Aluma Hyde II when it warms up soon. My son in law just purchased a RAS 47 and looking over his rifle, it looks very well built. It has the X on the bolt carrier. I did notice on his rifle that if the dust cover is removed, when cycling the bolt carrier, it too will jump the rail and jam. A slight tap on the top of the bolt carrier will drop it back down allowing it to slam back forward. This is the first I have heard any other AK variant do this other than an IO Inc. Anyone else have this occur on their RAS? From what I understand, an AK should function without the dust cover if needed. I also tried the RAS recoil system and bolt carrier (with my IO bolt) in my IO AK and it cycled fine without the buffer. Weird.
My son in law said he called Century about the bolt carrier issue. Century told him as long as it functioned properly with the dust cover on, there was no issue and nothing they would do about it. That’s pretty lame……….!
I am interested to know what he is going to do about this rifle. As would anyone else that has purchased an RAS47. I had a conversation with century arms via email and they assured me that i shouldnt be concerned about it and that they have a number of RAS47s there that have 10k-15k rds no issues. Yet i see people with failing trunnions and BCGs. I am interested to know if century is going to deal with this issue should it happen to mine.
Hey Folks, I’ve got a 02xxxx run RAS and I was wondering what BCG you guys would recommend as a replacement. Also the carrier is marked with a T I just got this and I decided to mitigate the most common issues off the bat. Haha, before anyone says, “buy a different weapon”, I can’t afford one. Thanks guys.
I just purchased a week ago. 500 rounds, no issues. Inside looked good, no abnormal wear, a lot less than what I’ve seen in other peoples.
It’s marked on the lower side of receiver as “factory second” and #000380. No markings on bolt carrier, but was curious as to who else has RAS47 marked “factory second”.
Rob, I believe in the 63d video you stated it was the best rifle Century was making at this time.
I got one for a great deal while the price was right.
Being an election year and depending on who gets into office, prices on all AK’s could skyrocket late this year / into next year.
Shotguns, Bolt guns, & pistols are always going to be out there.
Tactical carbines could go on the endangered list if politics start to go down hill this next presidency.
Get a good AK soon before they get to expensive or out of stock because everyone wants to get one at the last minute before a bad bill gets passed or executive order hits the desk.
Stock up on mags to.
I just purchased a ras47 about a week ago. This was before reading all this. Looks good and I get to shoot it a week from today. The only issue is mine won’t accept my Romanian 75 round drum. It takes all my 30 round mags of various types. A little disappointed by this but fortunately I have an M+M M10 that does. Still kind of lame.
So I am new in the AK market. But I came across a used under foldIng WASR-10 and a new RAS47. I was leaning toward the RAS47 but now after reading all of this I don’t know. I also came across a c39v2 new. Little but higher in price then the WASR and RAS but was wanted some advice as to what I should do.
[…] AK cast trunnion fail on RAS47 – Boom!stock-vector-epic-fail-red-grunge-round-vintage-rubber-stamp-epic-fail-stamp-epic-fail-round-sta.jpg "Men who are not free… always idealize their bondage." – Boris Pasternak Reply With Quote […]
I know this is kind of a late addition to the conversation. I just bought a used RAS-47. Despite what I had already known about them, I dived into the election hype and hysteria and dropped the duckets on a used RAS-47. I almost got a Yugo N-pap at my local gun store for $600.00 out the door, but I walked in as the previous customer was buying it. Sad day. Either way, I saw this guy on arms list selling his for $550. When I talked to him on the phone he said that his rifle ran flawlessly, and he put about 700 rounds through it. Only used the two Magpul mags that came with the rifle. I bought the rifle from him and took it home. The guy never cleaned it. Upon further inspection after giving it a deep cleaning I see some of the wear marks that Rob Ski had shown from his 5000 round torture test on the RAS-47, but these marks at the round count given to me by the previous owner do not show the same amount of wear Rob Ski’s rifle displayed after 500 rounds. This rifle to me is a very low Serial number RAS470061XX. My question is do we have a serial number range for which ones are fucking up? Also, where about on the bolt carrier is this X? I have found one on the bottom of the carrier next to the cut out for the locking lug. But its like scribbled in with electro pencil and doens’t look to me like a legitimate manufacturer stamping. If you guys want I can post some pictures of the wear surfaces.
Also, is it confirmed that replacing the bolt or carrier helps reduce the negative wear on the trunion? I read somewhere that Polish bolt’s are doing well in them. But I want some substantial evidence before I start slapping parts into my rifle. At the moment I haven’t even shot this thing yet. (Working in average of 60+ hours a week kills time to do anything)
Hey guys so I am having the exact same issue with a WSP build that I did through Arms of America out of Cripple Creek Colorado. I had a gunsmith look at it and he charged me 140 bucks just for reshaping and filing. He said that it was good to go, I took it to the range when I got it back and it is doing the same thing after 35 rounds. Is there any fix short of replacing the whole trunion?
I just got a new RAS47 in the 63,xxx serial number range, haven’t fired it yet. It has the faint “X” mark electro engraved under the carrier, and a large “T” stamped into the left side of the carrier. I wonder what the significance of this T mark is? Had I read about all the soft cast parts, I would not have purchased the RAS47. Oh well, it was an impulse buy (I am a die hard, long time, AR fan) and it will be fun to learn with. Just need to get some stain on that unfinished maple furniture.
Jim, because you got it now, just keep using it, but keep monitoring deformation of the bolt. At any signs of it, stop it and check head spacing first before using it again. All fails i have seen so far, all start with bolt deformations.
Thanks for the advice Rob Ski. Where exactly am I going to look for bolt deformation, on the lug and bearing surfaces I assume? I will try to find and order a set of go-no go gauges. SAAMI or CIP spec for the RAS47? Any specific gauge set recommendations?
i wish i would have read this before i bought mine. 500 rounds and the exact same thing occured to mine and i bought it 9/10/17. the left side of the trunion peeled back and the right side cracked apart !!
[…] brutally reliable methods and materials the Russians, Poles, Checs and Romanians made legendary. Trunions made of cast alloys instead of steel to save machining cost comes to mind. Poor riveting of the stamped receivers keeps […]
I have had my Ras47 for a few years now. I don’t get to shoot it much but have put at least 1k rounds through it maybe more and never had a problem. I do have a x on the bottom of my carrier even though my gun has a low s/n (9xx). Anyway today I took it out to go shooting an after about 20 rounds it started to jam so i just unloaded it an took it home to take a look the only thing that I could see is the trunnion was mushroomed out some and had a bur at the bottom it looked like the 3rd pic above not cracked anywhere I can see. I was wondering what to do. I don’t have alot of money to spend on it and would like to see what anyone would recommend. If I could fix it I would probably sell it but don’t want anyone who buys it to get hurt.
Update. Filled down the bur gun shot fine no jamming but i kept my eye on it an guess what it cracked on the opposite side. I looked close and I could tell this is some low quality cast with all the pitting in the metal. This has me a little pissed bought it out of state and got a bunch of accessories what a waste of money. This has left a bad taste in my mouth being my first ak. I’ll never buy century again. So now the question is what do I do with it hang it on the wall or sell it as a parts gun?
I must say, I bought my RAS47 February of this year. I have an estimated 2100, 2300 round count on it. This was after viewing your videos. I must say i’m still in good shape in all of the areas (so far) no malfunctions, no warping, or chunks missing, trunnions all in great condition. I put around 300 round through it each use, and take it out about 3 to 4 times a month. You’ve far exceeded my personal test. For me there were no failures after submerging it in water, and rolling it around in dirt.
As I said before for me, I’ve had zero failures. Honestly I think I think I got lucky. I also have a newer model that was already outfitted in the zhukov magpul furniture. Thank you robski. I’ll keep you updated after I hit 5000 rounds.
I bought one of these in June 2016 from Buds after I had heard all the original hoopla and was excited to get it. It was the magpul version with serial # in the 25k. The fit and finish looks awesome and I love the gun aesthetically. . Stupid me didnt research it until after I had gotten it. So its now sat in my safe for three years and I am scared that it will blow up if I shoot it. I also dont want to sell it and put someone else in my position. I dont know what to do with the damn thing.
I have a ras 47 3,000 rounds and minimal wear. never had a malfunction works great ! I’ll check it out again in another 1,000 rounds but so far works great, also has an x on bolt carrier and c , the front and rear trunnions look brand new.
I’ve had my RAS47 for 5 years and put perhaps some were in between 2500 to 3400 steel cased ammo trough it no happy with the open sights since my eye sight is very awful so I’m getting a red dot put on it as soon as it arrives to the place I ordered it from I don’t know why every body is complaining about the RAS I shoot scrub barel grease up piston clean gas port put a little dab of grease on the hood and it shoots as smooth as budder I’m impatient on waiting on my red dot so I can be ALOT more precise on my hits
Hey Rob I enjoy your ak videos and my RAS47 is wonderful I love it I did put a red dot on it took to range did not like it I went to the eye doctor got new percription glasses since i’s past dew for some new glasses went back to the range with wolf red army and Tula and some silver bear and a little brown bear ran it all in my rifle at 100 yards open sights and after 3 and a half hours off fun it all grouped perdy good within a 12in by 12in bulls eye target I treat that gun like a machine I clean it and lub it up after every shoot I do and it hasn’t let me down after several thousands of round but my fun has to stop so I don’t shoot up all my ammo since ammo is very scarce now
Rob the ammo problem is I think ok for me now I’ve got several cases of silver bear bought and paid for put up ready to rock just in case but I hope every thing will be fine I’m going to get anoughter ak for my son but he will have to wait till he gets stronger cause he thinks the steal gun with a loaded mag is to heavy
I bought a C39V2 in 2019 and put it in my safe. Recently began shooting it and after approximately 250 rounds I had a case blow out. I had the headspace checked by a gunsmith. It was out of spec and the trunnion lug in the receiver on the right side was damaged. 250 rounds and now the rifle is useless, no more American made garbage for me.
By all the negative commits on the RAS47 I guess I’m the lucky one and got a good well made one never has failed me yet let’s see if my memory serves me right I believe it’s miss fired only 3 rounds of the brown bear brand of ammo THATS IT 3 ROUNDS out of several thousands of rounds the only way I believe I can get my ak to blow up is if I fill it full of black powder insert fuze light it up and run like hell